TaiwanEcho > TaiwanEcho ？ a day ago

　　Oh btw， even Taiwan was part of Qing literally， the Qing didn't admit her authority over Taiwan。 Proof？ There was in fact a little known war between Taiwan and the USA -- Yes， a war， with real knives and guns and bullets。 It happens shortly after US civil war。 US marines landed in southern Taiwan and launched attack on Taiwanese。 The US marines lost the battle and one US major， who led the operation， was killed。 Then both sides negotiated。 The US thought Qing is the gov and thus the one to talk， but Qing denied her authority over Taiwan and asked the US to talk to Taiwanese。 So， the US and Taiwanese negotiated and reached a diplomatic agreement。

　　顺便说一句，即便从文献资料里看台湾是真属于清王朝的一部分，但清王朝不承认台湾属于她。证据就是，台湾和美国之间曾爆发过的一次鲜为人知的战争：据说美国内战后不久，美国的海军陆战队在台湾南部登录并对台湾进行了攻击。台湾战败了被清王朝划给美国做一个州Balabala。。。。

　　Annie Wang 8 hours ago

　　I'm a Taiwanese who is pro trade pact， the student protesters do not speak for me。 However， I keep an open mind to hear people who are against the tract pact so that I can understand their perspectives。 Unfortunately， your article is biased and not based on the facts。 Ma DID NOT “renege his promise to allow a clause-by-clause review。” The

　　only thing he refused is to abort the whole trade pact as one of the requests from the students

　　There are too many voices and confusion coming from the student movement (even the protest leader agreed in an interview，) some are accusing the government to keep things in the dark but are not agains the entire trade pact， some are against the trade pact， some stood up because they are against the communism， some of them are against the Ma。 In my eyes， they are a bunch of unorganized， undisciplined kids who want people to hear their voice but do not know clearly what they want。 Nevertheless， I agree that no matter what they stood for， President Ma must acknowledge that the people of Taiwan (at least 2% of them) are disappointed with the current status。

　　我是一个台湾人，我支持贸易协定的签订，我不想被那些抗议学生给代表了。当然，我也持开放态度去听那些反服贸的声音并对他们的观点表示理解。不幸的是，你的文章是有偏见的，与事实不符。马总统并没有违背逐条审核条款的承诺。

　　他是唯一拒绝的是有学生提出的要中止整个贸易协定的签订。

　　抗议学生的领袖在某次采访中都自己承认有太多太混乱的声音来自他们的团体：一些人指责的是政府对签订服贸协议进行黑箱操作，一些人是反对贸易协议的部分条款，一些人反对签订服贸协议，一些人仅仅是因为反对对岸的共产主义，一些人是为了反马而反。在我眼里，他们只是一群无组织无纪律的孩子，这些孩子们想让大人们听到他们的声音，但他们自己也不清楚自己想要什么。尽管如此，我认为马总统必须承认一点，那就是至少有2%的台湾人对现状很失望。

　　Joseph Siew > TaiwanEcho ？ 9 hours ago

　　Respect democracy， respect your vote。

　　尊重民主制度，尊重你手里将要投出的选票。

　　P&Y ？ 11 hours ago

　　I live in Taiwan。 Let's call a spade a spade： Ma is a dictator bent on imposing his grand vision of glorious fatherland on Taiwan to the detriment of the political and economical interests of all but the top 1% in collusion with him and the KMT。 Even as we speak， he is sending out his minions to crack down on protesters domestically through mass persecution/harassment and track down overseas Taiwanese people involved in global protests for blacklisting。 Is it not reasonable to demand the passage of a law as the SOP for effective review of trade agreements？ Alas， Ma and his Minions and colluders steadfastly deny the People's wish for due diligence AND due process。

　　What we have here is a total disconnect of the elected officials from the majority will they are supposed to represent。 Democracy isn't about electing rulers so they can do anything and everything nilly-willy in the name of public mandate。 Similarly， the rule of law isn't just about the means of rule by a state over its people; rather it should also be about the balance and regulation of government powers to protect ordinary people from its harm by passive negligence or active persecution。

　　The US Interest will pay dearly if it falsely assume that all will end well just to let Ma and China roughshod their grand designs down the throats of the people of Taiwan under a veneer of a democracy that is nothing but mockery to its true spirit。 Sure， there are short term gains to be had， but in the long run， when China's ambition breaks out the Pacific Rim and meets the US Midway to Pearl Harbor， then there will be a price to pay。

　　And to what end will this history as farce be， as by then my home will have known the taste of slavery yet again？

　　我本人就住在台湾，让我们直言不讳：马英九就是为了他的祖国中国而在牺牲台湾的政治和经济利益。就在我写这条评论的现在他已经派出他的爪牙镇压抗议者了……爪牙们大规模迫害、骚扰、跟踪海外台湾人……服贸协议没有进行合法审查……

　　台湾的官员是民选官员，民选官员不是独裁统治者……政府权力要平衡……要保护普通大众不受迫害……

　　如果放任马英九和中国联手一起横行霸道地大玩什么单极民主来糊弄台湾人民，那美国的利益将大受损害，这也是对民主社会的嘲弄。当然，短期来看这并无不妥，但长期来说当中国的雄心冲出了太平洋和美国相遇的时候，威胁到珍珠港的时候美国的利益就将大受损害。

　　这样的历史闹剧要啥时候才罢休？难道要我们大家都再一次经历奴隶制社会吗？